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[John S.]

I have about had it with OLPC. After ordering, being charged, and receiving numerous emails from them, yesterday I called in to get my confirmation number only to learn that apparently they’ve never heard of me.

I know they’ve had a horrible time with their North American distribution (thanks in large part to OLPC News, which I’ve followed every day since November 12) and I am a passionate supporter of the basic idea. However, there comes a point when the allowances wear thin.

Imagine purchasing any sort of widget online from a normal for-profit company, being charged for it, and waiting for it. After a while you decide to call the company to ask on the status of your order only to
learn that apparently there is no order and they’ve never heard of you. The logical conclusion is that your credit card was charged fraudulently and therefore you would turn to your credit card company and contest the charge by pointing out that the company has no order for you. By law, the credit card company will remove the contested charge and take it up with the company and you, as the victim of a credit card scam, have effectively washed your hands of the whole affair.

Of course with a charitable project like OLPC, and especially one that obviously has a very poor North American distribution model, more allowances are given. However, their flat refusal to provide a specific
response discards those allowances rather quickly. Below is the letter I sent to OLPC this evening (minus my personal information). If I don’t hear anything back by the 22nd, I’m treating this whole matter as a
credit card scam and will just buy an XO on Ebay. OLPC can just deal with my credit card company’s lawyers since obviously they can’t be bothered telling their donors anything at all. I’ll bet the lawyers get a response.

John Sigler

----- START LETTER TO OLPC -----

Hello,

On November 12, about two hours after the G1G1 program began, I participated via the laptopgiving.org website, received my PayPal confirm (receipt #XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-XXXX for $423.95) and assumed
everything was alright.

On November 15, I received a second email titled “Thank You for Donating to One Laptop per Child” ostensibly from Nicholas Negroponte. This email provided no new information regarding delivery.

On November 28, I received yet another email titled “Welcome to the OLPC community!” and despite saying that the XO was on its way, no specific information was provided.

On December 5, I learned that my original address provided (P.O. Box XXXXX, Denver, CO 80XXX; the correct billing address for the credit card used) was not acceptable via the OLPC News blog. On the same day I sent
an email to this address providing my street address (XXX XXXXX XXXXXX, XXXXXXXXX  XXXXX, Denver CO 80XXX) I also called the donor support line and provided my street address to the girl answering.

On December 6, I received a new email entitled “One Laptop Per Child Shipping Address Update” asking for a street address. I promptly – the same day – responded providing the same street address provided above.
This particular email specifically said: “Please expect to hear back from us within 3-5 business days,” however I never heard anything back.

Then, on December 18, following advice from one of the XO Donor’s forums, I called the donor support line a second time to get my confirmation number (that apparently can be used to track the package via FedEx). After remaining on hold for forty minutes, I talked to your representative who apparently had no idea that I had donated at all. She didn’t confirm or deny anything saying that she didn’t see anything in
my name, to either of my addresses, or related to my email. She took all my information and said she would give it to her supervisor who would call me back.

No one has called back and FedEx doesn’t say anything is coming to my street address.

I have been following events on the various OLPC donor’s forums and I know there have been a lot of problems with your distribution model, further I am a supporter – obviously – of the overall initiative.
However, I need to know what is going on and the complete and utter lack of communication is completely unjustified.

So, assuming I don’t hear anything back from you by the weekend, I will be forced to assume that your representative that I spoke with on the 18th is correct and that my donation/order was not taken. In which case I will have to contest the charge of $423.95 that was placed on my Visa – as is the case with any credit card scam online – and let you take it up with XXXXXXXX’s lawyers, who presumably will receive a response.

Please respond by either email (at this address, the same that I received the previously mentioned emails) or phone (day: XXX-XXX-XXXX ext. XXXXX or evening: XXX-XXX-XXXX) and at the very least let me know
what is happening by December 22. If I don’t hear anything, I have to assume that you charged my credit card in error and will have to let you fight it out with the credit card company as is the case with any other
incident of internet credit card fraud.

Just to clarify, I am not saying that the XO itself has to be here by the 22nd, I just need a specific response explaining what happened, confirming that my donation (and thus the charge on my credit card) has
been properly received and providing some general idea of when I should expect my XO to arrive.


Sincerely,

John Sigler

[Alex Guichet]

John.

The OLPC Foundation is a non-profit group. They can't possibly have the man power or cash to handle this perfectly. In all honesty, this is going better than anyone expected. Much better. There are others in your EXACT same situation who handled this much better than you did. They have been reading OLPC News for a while and understood that there could be many glitches with the G1G1 program. When confronted with the fact that their name isn't in the database, they happily ordered again, and worked with OLPC to resolve the situation.

I reccomend that you double check with OLPC and your Credit Card Company and verify that there has been no charge and that there hasn't been an order. And to order again. Remember, this isn't about you. The G1G1 is focused on giving laptops to the children.

Namaste,
Alex

[pgf]

alex, i disagree completely.

i thought john's letter was exceedingly well-written, and that he's giving them plenty of time to settle the matter amicably.  and, let's face it -- the worst that will happen to OLPC is that they'll have to refund his money.  how long would you ask him to wait?  they've told him they have no record of the transaction!

the reality is that the G1G1 sale has been handled entirely unprofessionally from OLPC's perspective -- they've set marketing expectations they couldn't meet, and made promises they couldn't fulfill.  i, too, am a huge fan of the project, and am willing to allow OLPC a wide margin for error.  as i purchased my XO for entirely selfish reasons, i don't particularly need it before the holidays, but you can be sure that at some point, if i find they have no record of my purchase _after_ charging my card, they'll no longer be dealing with an avid supporter.  and i hope they won't be surprised.

paul

[Eph Zero]

I can understand being angry about this, but I wouldn't use the word "fraud." I don't know what the legal definition is, but in my opinion, that implies intention to deceive, and that is not at all the case here. Maybe they screwed up, but they certainly aren't trying to steal people's money.

[John S.]

Hi Alex,

First, you wrote: "I reccomend that you double check with OLPC and your Credit Card Company and verify that there has been no charge and that there hasn't been an order."

That is the problem, there HAS been a charge, and one I have already paid (paid my Visa bill on Monday); however according to OLPC there has been no order. So my $400+ went somewhere called "OLPC FOUNDAT" which is - as far as I can tell since OLPC flatly refuses to tell me anything - a credit card scam. If it were just a matter of my order being dropped - without charge - then I would be much more inclined to do as you suggest. However, as it is, there is zero chance of "donating" more money to god-knows-who.

Second, you also wrote: "Remember, this isn't about you. The G1G1 is focused on giving laptops to the children."

I agree in general - that's why I've been so excited about the whole project, following it for years, and was a first day donor. Further, I'm not demanding that my XO show up on any particular date (I'm not in a big rush); however, the fact that they charged me and are now saying there is there no record of it is patently unacceptable.

Oddly enough, I just happen to do non-profit reviews for an NGO that monitors them (not for a living, but on a volunteer basis) and OPLC's complete lack of communication to its donors (even when there is an obvious problem with the donation itself as opposed to other aspects of their arrangement) does not reflect well. Money sent via credit card is not "money in the bank" allowing them to utterly discard their donors once payment is received. Credit card users do have recourse against fraud.

[Infamy]

John,

I can sympathize with you, as my order went almost exactly the same way, outside of the fact that they do in fact know that I have paid and plan on sending me an XO(was able to get my confirmation # after waiting on hold for 1.25 hrs today). In fact, I got a really creepy email from them at one point telling me to go to some squatter URL, which really freaked me out. In talking with some people, it seemed to be some default CRM that hadn't been adjusted.

Bottom line, I think you are correct, the communication between OLPC and customers in the G1G1 program leaves MUCH to be desired, and should be addressed, quickly. Just keep in mind that OLPC is probably setup to handle 1 order of 1,000,000 XOs from 1 government, rather than 1,000,000 orders for 1 XO from 1,000,000 customers. I hope things get sorted out soon

Cheers,

Infamy

[John S.]

Infamy & Paul,

Thanks for the notes. I do sincerely hope they get back to me and everything is resolved.

Even if my XO shows up later, if they would at least tell me so, I would be a bit disappointed but would deal with it. Likewise, if they just refunded my money and called the whole transaction off, I'd be disappointed, but would deal with it. However, as it stands, they've taken my money and now claim they show no record of it and flatly refuse to tell me anything further. I can't even try to "work it out" because they won't talk to me. That is just plain unacceptable and I don't have to fight over it, I'll just let the credit card company's lawyers do it.

When conducting financial transactions online, there is always the risk of confusion, technical problems, and what-have-you (esp. since OLPC was obviously not ready to deal with actual human beings); but the complete lack of communication is what has ticked me off. I'm not that unreasonable and if they would actually talk to me (regardless of the actual message, aside from "We've taken your money now go away, sucker!" which is effectively what I've received from them to date) I'd be much easier going about this.

John S.

[John S.]

Just an FYI: I'll keep this thread updated on how this situation is resolved. If OLPC does the right thing and contacts me and we work it out or if they force me to contest the donation and remove the charge from my credit card (meaning they have to pay my "donation" back to my credit card company); either way I'll report how it goes here.

[Skjellifetti]

Nicholas seems to have the same weakness as his brother John: high ideals coupled with poor execution.

[Ulsterman]

John, after I received an email last Sunday from OLPC telling me that my address was invalid for FedEx shipping, I too immediately thought this is some sort of scam.  OLPC had had no problem extracting the G1G1 payment plus shipping charges from my PayPal account, which by the way I pay with my credit card, a technique I learned in the Safe Harbor forum at Ebay, and which offers several layers of buyer protection.  After emailing and calling OLPC on three subsequent days about this issue, and not getting one email in return, nor did I hear anything conclusive from the customer service personnel, I have reluctantly concluded that indeed I am being scammed.  Obviously those who have received their computers are not in this group, but just as obviously there is a growing group of disconnected purchasers who at the very least are feeling defrauded.  I have initiated a dispute within the resolution console of Paypal. My first posting in that console was on 12/16 and there has been no response.  My latest conversation with OLPC service desk, has produced the following information: my address, the only one I have, and the one I reiterated in all emails and conversations with OLPC has apparently been accepted by OLPC.  The woman I spoke with not half an hour ago told me that the shipping addresses that had come in with our purchase agreements were sent to FedEx for validation.  Those that did not meet whatever criteria FedEx uses for validation were kicked back to OLPC, and that generated an email from OLPC to provide another shipping address.  I had not heard this explanation before, all I had been told was that they would take down my shipping address and my explanation that it was my only shipping address and that I had had no previous problems getting packages from either Fed Ex or UPS for the past 10 years with this address, and that they would escalate my concern to their superior via email and that I would hear back from them by email or phone within 24 hours.  I heard not word one.  Again, the call today produced additional information, to wit: the customer service rep could no longer access the computer screen that allowed her to change anything on my order, so she said this meant that my order has moved to the shipping department.  I asked if this was Brightstar and she said yes it was.  I asked if I could expect that Brightstar would pull a FedEx shipping label and ship within the timeframe scheduled for delivery for purchases made between 11/12 and 11/15 as per the OLPC shipping information, and she said she hoped so.  What is it when one hand does not know what the other is doing?  Is this a scam?  Fraud? Or simply mismanagement?  I for one hold non-profits to the same high standards as any company that wants to be successful.  You don't promote your widgit and dangle a Christmas delivery date and take your customers' money and then pull a disappearing act.  At the very least, communicate with your backers, don't leave us in the dark and in the lurch.

[pgf]

well, misery loves company, so here goes.  :-/

sadly, i now find myself in the same position as ulsterman.

i ordered at 9am eastern time, on the 12th of november.  i got an initial thank-you mail of some sort, but that was all.  last week, i called, and they found my order, and gave me a confirmation number.  great, i thought -- i'm all set!  well, i've been using that number to try and track the fedex shipment, but today, when nothing had shown up on the tracking page for the third day in a row, i decided i should call.

sure enough, my order is just in limbo.  they were able to find it easily, and at first she thought the address has been rejected by fedex (it's just a simple street address -- no po box, no apartment, no business name), but after checking a database or two, and consulting with her "superior", she couldn't tell me what had happened.  it was clear she was mystified.  all she knew was that my order had never been given to shipping.

so, she or her superior sent off the request to shipping, and now all should be well.  of course, she offered to contact me to let me know for sure that everything was okay.  when i asked if she could just email me, she said, "sure -- what's your address?"  sigh.  i've already gotten three email messages from them.  in how many places do you suppose they have customer information stored?

paul
not holding his breath.  :-/

[John S.]

Hi Ulsterman,

Thanks for the note. Although I'm sorry to hear that you're in the same situation, I do have to admit that I'm a little reassured about taking action in that I'm not the only one. Perhaps when a bunch of credit card company attorneys show up at their office demanding repayment of the funds (presumably stolen since they refuse to provide an alternative reason or resolution to the matter), putting leins on their property and cancelling their PayPal accounts (routine measure in fraud investigations) they'll realize screwing over their backers isn't the best idea.

Not to mention if there are enough cases of fraud - like apparently both of ours - they are putting their 501(c)3 status in jeapardy (remember 501(c)3 status can be revoked retroactively as well). 501(c)3 organizations have strict record keeping obligations (see IRS Publication 4221-PC) and since plainly they aren't doing this in cases like ours, they have a problem. Keep in mind that the IRS is very active in revoking 501(c)3 status for a myriad of reasons, See: http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=141466,00.html for recent revocations.

You wrote: "You don't promote your widgit and dangle a Christmas delivery date and take your customers' money and then pull a disappearing act.  At the very least, communicate with your backers, don't leave us in the dark and in the lurch."

I couldn't have said it better myself. A little communication would go a long way. They have until around noon on Saturday before I take action, contest the charge, and let the credit card company "do their thing."

[mem from somerville]

Huh.  Nov 12 order here, too.  Same story as John and the others.  Got 3 emails, none with confirmation or tracking numbers of any use.

I wasn't going to try the phone, but now I'm worried I'm in the limbo that pgf described.  So I'm listening to the muzak....

Thanks for sharing your stories, folks. 

[Ulsterman]

John, I think it prudent to wait out the OLPC shipping schedule as revised and quoted at the top of this board by Wayan before initiating a credit card charge back claim, as this was the promised delivery date.  The dispute I raised within Paypal's resolution center gives me 20 days from the time I initiated the complaint--mine was for non-receipt, with the caveat that OLPC emailed me that they could not ship to me with my address, which is a confirmed Paypal address (and Paypal does not vendors who don't ship to confirmed addresses, it is unconfirmed addresses that they caution about and even those they tell vendors to simply double check on)--to seek a satisfactory resolution.  At any time during that 20 day period I can request a full refund and/or escalate the dispute to a claim, at which point Paypal becomes directly involved.  Until that point, the dispute is carried on through Paypal but just between me as the buyer and OLPC Foundation as the seller (seller's email in the transaction data is paypal@laptop.org.  While my ire over the mishandling of the shipping is evident in my postings, and shared by a number of purchasers who find themselves in similar situations, I am still willing to wait out the posted shipping window before taking restitutionary action.  I am of the mindset to start a new post with the topic "Who Wants to Get Their Money Back for Non-Delivery?" to gather us in one place.  Your thoughts?

[Maddie]

John.

The OLPC Foundation is a non-profit group. They can't possibly have the man power or cash to handle this perfectly. In all honesty, this is going better than anyone expected. Much better. There are others in your EXACT same situation who handled this much better than you did. They have been reading OLPC News for a while and understood that there could be many glitches with the G1G1 program. When confronted with the fact that their name isn't in the database, they happily ordered again, and worked with OLPC to resolve the situation.

I reccomend that you double check with OLPC and your Credit Card Company and verify that there has been no charge and that there hasn't been an order. And to order again. Remember, this isn't about you. The G1G1 is focused on giving laptops to the children.

Namaste,
Alex

http://www.olpcnews.com/implementation/plan/brightstar_xo_computer_distribution.html

Isn't this exactly what they contracted Brightstar to do?  I can understand OLPC not being able to handle this but that's why they hired a logistics company.  On-line ordering is not new, databases are not new, shipping material Fed-Ex is not new.  This is the kind of thing that makes people wonder, "If it's  so hard to get information about a fairly simple problem, what happens when I have a complicated problem?"

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